In Harm's Way

topic posted Sat, June 23, 2007 - 4:02 PM by  TMIbo
So, is it "In Harm's way"? Or is it "in harms way". "....sway"?
posted by:
TMIbo
  • Re: In Harm's Way

    Sat, June 23, 2007 - 10:58 PM
    "In Harm's Way" is how the Peminger movie based on the Basset novel "Harm's Way" is titled.
    • Re: In Harm's Way

      Sun, June 24, 2007 - 9:05 PM
      Right. But did Basset invent the term? Or does it come from an earlier source. I mean, I know how it reputedly is spelled but the meaning is very subtle and can shift about if one pays too much attention to the phrase itself. (You have been warned...)
  • Re: In Harm's Way

    Mon, June 25, 2007 - 7:07 PM
    This phrase is commonly believed to have originated in a letter written by John Paul Jones in 1778: "I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way." (If you just look this up on the internet, that's the explanation you'll generally find.) However, the Oxford English Dictionary shows lesser known citations for the phrase going back to 1661and it's likely that the phrase was in common use well before that.

    The accepted early examples, from Fuller in 1661 through to Jones in 1778 and beyond, all include the apostrophe marking possession, so "in harm's way" seems to me to be the indisputably correct way of writing the phrase.
    • Re: In Harm's Way

      Tue, June 26, 2007 - 3:19 AM
      Marie Theresa, thank you for reminding me of O.E! I am currently at a location where a copy is not at hand...but I do have the Internet!

      "Harm" sound like some sort of Norse god or something in the phrase itself, especially with the possessive form. I think that it is an interesting turn of phrase that begs the question as to the full etymology of the word itself...

      O.E. hearm "hurt, evil, grief, pain, insult," from P.Gmc. *kharmaz (cf. O.N. harmr, O.Fris. herm, Ger. harm "grief, sorrow, harm"). The verb is from O.E. hearmian "to hurt," and ousted O.E. skeþþan "scathe" in all but a few senses.

      In that sense, how could you get in the way of any of that...other than intentionally doing so? It also seems to me that the plural is also true for the phrase...but not the spirit, if you will, of the actual usage. That is, the noun, 'harm' seems to be raised above the mundane and placed into a spiritual context implying some sort of deity or fate that must be encountered by the protagonist(s). Although, frankly, "In Scathe's way" does seem to be even more viscerally Norse, "harm" flowing off the English palette less gutturally and with more grace.

      Unknowingly in harm's way is the way to look at this. If you are unknowingly in harm's way then can you also be unknowingly in harms way? Is there an implied fate fetish if you are in harms' way? Or ways? In the singular, only one harm is implied, yet many harms may befall. Being in harm's way is both a state of being, or potential being, and also an implied struggle with fate...and fates I suppose. Hmm. Anyways, it is a romantique notional phrase that implies a sense of commitment to purpose and grounding in the weird of the world...even if potentially unpleasant, consequentially.

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